Stephanie Drury was born and raised in Arkansas but now lives in Seattle, WA. She is a mother of two, an appreciator of electric blankets, dogs wearing cones, and people with depression (because, as she says, they tend to be nice). She does not like earthquakes, goatees, or changing lanes near tractor-trailers. It’s not irrelevant to say that her favorite movie is “Waiting For Guffman”. The Monarch had a chance to chat with Stephanie about her web site, Stuff Christian Culture Likes, her life growing up with religion, and the Mars Hill Church.

Jake: Your web site, Stuff Christian Culture Likes, is thorough, passionate and informed. But what I love most about it is your approach: you use a sort of Socratic method by questioning points those in the conservative, often money-grubbing Christian culture have made. How did you arrive at this style of inquisition?

Stephanie: I have no idea what the Socratic method is but I like that you just said that! I think I write the way I do in order to show these Christian-y things in a different way than they’re usually presented. Obviously my bias comes through over the arch of the blog but I try to keep each post as free from my personal editorial as possible, meaning that if I can hold it loosely and put it in a different light, a different perspective will come through. It forces you to see it in a way you may not have before. I’m not trying to tell people what to think. I’d rather help them tear off the notions they’ve applied to these concepts and start over for themselves.

J: Right, exactly. The Socratic method, as our friend Wikipedia says, “is a form of inquiry” between individuals with opposing viewpoints based on asking and answering questions to illuminate ideas.” You seem ultimately focused on saying, “Seriously???” to many of American Christianity’s outlandish positions, ideas of male dominance, ideas of pray-it-away. What’s interesting too is the definition includes the idea of opposing viewpoints. Is this how you feel when it comes to your site and the Christian community you’re investigating?

S: You’re totally right, my blog is one big “SERIOUSLY?” That’s the subtext in a word. I feel I have a completely opposing viewpoint to Christian culture in that I’m not convinced of spiritual concepts where Christian culture is all about their conviction. Everything they do comes from a conviction that they’re right and there’s no real appreciation of relationship there. They don’t do things to foster relationship or know themselves, that’s not a priority at all. And that’s tragic. It means there are a bunch of hollow shells with blank stares walking around, trying to measure up and earn God’s favor. And that’s a terrible way to live. I oppose that. I oppose that hard.

J: You use the term “Christian culture” rather than “Christians”. Can you explain the difference?

S: Yeah, I distinguish between the two because the culture surrounding American Christianity, the megachurches and wealth and political affiliations, have nothing to do with what Jesus was actually on about. The more I read of what he actually said and did the more I think he’d be pissed about what a lot of people do in his name. So I make the distinction between what is culturally tied to Christianity today in the states and what actual ancient Christianity was.

J: You grew up in the church, daughter of a Preacher. There are obviously many things about organized religion you dislike, or are even disgusted by. I’ve also heard you say there are some things you just can’t let go of. What do you find yourself holding on to?

S: I am drawn to meditation and prayer. I take it kind of seriously. I go to a cathedral almost every day and light candles and cry and kind of soak it all in. I wasn’t raised Catholic so I think that’s at least partly why that stuff compels me, it represents what I’ve found rather than what I was raised with. I’d go to a mosque or temple too if I knew the rules and if there was one handy. I have a rosary that I made up my own meditations for and I’m big into intuition and validating your own feelings. I think feelings are holy and aren’t given enough credence.

J: What is it about religion that is compelling to you? How is it different than any other community or philosophy? Related: does it feel like what you’re doing now is a sort of digestion period after all the information you’d been given as a child?

S: I feel more centered and better able to let go of my anxiety when I’m focusing on spiritual stuff. I haven’t found anything similar with other philosophies yet, but I’m open to them. Logic is great and helpful but even logic only takes me so far. Spiritual stuff is highly illogical in that it’s not black and white, and I’m okay with that. I find a lot of rest and resonance in it. And community is as important to me as spiritual stuff. It IS spiritual, really, having people around you who share your life, the ugly emotions you have and all your fears, that feels deeply spiritual to me, making connections and relying sometimes on your community instead of forging completely on your own. And all of this does feel like a digestion period after what I’d been taught as a kid. It feels like I’m taking ownership of something that had previously been decided for me. I’ve been conflicted about being drawn to the church when I see so much wrong with it and I’ve given myself permission to leave whenever I’ve needed to. I think holding it loosely has allowed me to be curious about it and not take too much ownership of it.

J: What’s the craziest thing you’ve come across in your time running your site? You’ve had some battles with Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Church, any of that come to mind?

S: This isn’t super mature of me, but it’s fun to get hate mail because I post it on the Facebook page as the Email Of The Day and people immediately come to defend my honor and dismantle whatever the email said. I got a really detailed email one time from a guy in the Bible belt who said that he knew my true identity and that I’m actually a gay man who wants to ruin the country and he told me, “You are only one generation away from succeeding!” He gave me his phone number so that he could convert me to the truth of Jesus Christ. So I of course made that the email of the day and 60 people commented in 15 minutes that they’d tried to call him and he ended up disconnecting his number.

It was also pretty crazy when my husband was disinvited from a screening at Mars Hill because he’s married to me. He was in a documentary about card counting and Mars Hill was hosting a screening and asked him to do a Q&A afterwards. Then the day before they asked him not to even come onto the property because they didn’t want the husband of Stephanie Drury to share their pulpit. They said that!

J: That’s better than any feather in any cap! Do you ever worry though that, as the project grows, the consequences might get more troubling? I suppose this is why you’ve focused on a strong community around your site?

S: People tell me to watch out for Mark Driscoll’s disciples, that they might want to put a cap in my ass, but I figure I’m too obvious a target for them to off me without getting caught. So come at me, bro!

J: Mark Driscoll. How did the feud begin? He’s blocked you from Twitter once or twice, no? Have you been to Mars Hill? Can you contrast the feeling you get from that place to the feeling you get with the Stuff Christian Culture Likes community?

S: The feud began when I started group therapy and had women in my group who went to Mars Hill. They told stories about how they were told to obey their husband and quit their jobs and have babies, and these women were all really depressed. They were wrecks and were told not to go to any counseling outside of Mars Hill. They were in my counseling group on the sly and they were shaking with fear, but they were desperate to get better. I was completely pissed that this was going on. I see it as destroying families from the inside out. So I started a Twitter parody of him (@fakedriscoll) that Mars Hill immediately emailed me about and told me to make it clear that it was a FAKE twitter. I just wrote back to them well, it’s right in the name. He’s blocked all my twitter accounts, which is kind of validating. I did go to Mars Hill once about 12 years ago and got a major personality cult vibe from it even then. I went back in fall of 2011 when they had an American Idol-style preaching competition. Swear to God that’s what they called it. I took off work and went and talked about it on my podcast. It felt so hollow and paranoid, honestly. They have security guards in the church and on the door it says you can’t carry inflammatory signs or wear inflammatory shirts and the vibe was very intense. I just wanted to get the fuck out of there the whole time. It felt like a highly controlled environment. Whereas what I’m trying to create with Stuff Christian Culture Likes is a place where you can say anything. My policy is that I never delete comments. People’s anger and sadness isn’t a threat to anything worthwhile but it does spark revolutions. That’s why establishments like Mars Hill are afraid of it.

J: Something that has always fascinated me about organized religion, especially those that seem and feel corrupt, is the subtle language used to persuade people. It’s a sort of Jedi Mind Trick gone totally wrong. I saw a commercial last night for ChristianSingles.com, which advertised something like, “Find God’s match for you.” What is your reaction to this sort of manipulation?

S: Oh God, I’m so sensitive to that kind of manipulation. It’s just so condescending and contrived. I saw a tweet today by a church that said “Come to our seminar to learn how to inject Jesus into your conversations and make it less awkward.” Why does it have to be awkward at all, you dumb dicks? Why do you have to proselytize every chance you get? I swear it’s Christian culture’s agenda to make sure everything is overtly dedicated to the glory of God and annoy everyone. But if they have to contrive his presence everywhere then it seems like they don’t actually put a lot of stock into who they say he is, that they have to drag him into everything and ruin the mood and make shit awkward. Goddamn.

J: Final question, and thank you for your openness to these questions, Stephanie, what do you hope to do better in the future with your site, your relationship to religion and those who think of themselves as religious?

S: I just want it to keep being a forum where people can question what’s been fed to us and call out harm that people do in God’s name. Whether or not God is real is also a topic on the table. Who really knows? David Bazan has a lyric: “Though it may alienate your family and blur the lines of your identity / Let go of what you know and honor what exists, daughter that’s what bearing witness is.” That line undoes me every time. I want to facilitate a community that releases the assurance religion offers under false pretenses and instead focuses on honoring what exists, our emotions and relationships and people we love. That’s all I want to do.